Comments on: When I hear the words “semper reformanda,” I reach for my revolver

By: Bill J

Bill J — Tue, 01 May 2012 20:05:56 +0000

Very interesting. Just for information’s sake, I hear the term used at our annual synod assembly (Lutheran)this past weekend… hence my arrival here.

Thanks for all of the information!

By: T

Wed, 12 Oct 2011 13:56:38 +0000

The church’s level of understanding will continue to increase, and the members thereof will need to continue in sanctification. But that is something else. Reform has to do with the ordering and worship. What makes the phrase-monger so sure that further reform is necessary? that the church can never be so ordered such that further reform is unnecessary?

Is the reformed church the only church? If not, why do the other ones get a pass on this? If so, why does it not simply say, “the church” without qualification?

I’m beginning to think this proverb is one papists could taunt us with, as if to say, “Careful. Go an inch, and eventually, your comrades will take you a mile. Ecclesia reformata reformanda est.”

By: john mason

john mason — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 00:21:15 +0000

My impression is that the Latin passive, reformanda, in this phrase has an imperative force, as in the passive periphrastic construction Cartago delenda est, Carthage must be destroyed. The church that has been reformed, must continue to be reformed (that is, must continue to accept that the Lord will keep reforming it; it cannot reform itself). Once the church has left the Pope’s authority, impelled by God, it cannot expect to return. Once it has jumped from the ship, it must swim and keep swimming. But the phrase doesn’t mean that the church must swim on its own; the reforming process was begun by God and will continue by the same divine power. As many commenters have observed, it is less helpful if it is taken to mean that the church needs to keep busy reforming itself, cutting its sails to the winds and waves.

By: T

Sun, 21 Nov 2010 22:10:06 +0000

Graeme,
I think you forgot to include the reference.
Also: if it has merit as a universal principle, why is it that only Reformed types ever latch on to it? (Someone said the Lutheran Pietists did also, but we are still waiting for a citation.)

By: Graeme Codrington

Graeme Codrington — Wed, 10 Nov 2010 10:35:29 +0000

I am not going to add to the discussions above. The phrase itself has merit, and makes sense regardless of whether it was an established “Reformation Principle” or not.

But, you asked for references, so here it is:

The phrase “semper reformanda” (Translation: always in need of being reformed) is derived from the Nadere Reformatie movement in the seventeenth century Dutch Reformed Church and widely but informally used in Reformed and Presbyterian churches today. The term first appeared in print in Jodocus van Lodenstein, Beschouwinge van Zion (Contemplation of Zion), Amsterdam, 1674

By: T

Sun, 04 Jul 2010 17:32:47 +0000

Bill—
I can partially grant your point; however the question then is why single out the church “reformed”?

If you take the adjective as a reference to the Reformed Church (capital ‘R’) then the question is why your point should be restricted to that church. Why not “ecclesia catholica semper reformanda”?

But if you take it with a small ‘r,’ i.e. all churches, even after experiencing reform, must be open to further reform, then why not bring that out with an “even” to avoid confusion. (I have only seen people in the Reformed tradition use it, though one of our correspondents claims the Lutheran Pietists did as well.) Why not “ecclesia et reformata semper…”?

By: Bill

Bill — Fri, 25 Jun 2010 21:03:07 +0000

I think you may be missing the foundation, the reason behind the statement “Ecclesia reformata semper reformanda.” Rather than saying that the Creeds, Councils and Confessions have erred, it recognizes a basic point of logic. When the finite (humankind)seeks to understand the infinite (the revelation from the Creator God of the Bible), humankind is embarking on a process that can never be complete. A trillion, trillion years in to eternity (which is a mixing of exclusive categories) the people of God will be engaged in a process that will never be completed – the process of fully knowing God. So, in time, with a similar process, i.e. a complete understanding of God’s revelation, there can be no completion of the process. The finite can never fully know the infinite. Deut. 29:29.
Therefore, the task of the church and the people of God is to continually seeking to increase their knowledge of Scripture which leads to increased knowledge of God. Since you say this in your post, what all the “flutter” about? Much to do about nothing!
Historically, it is important because the Reformation was a shift to a more biblical epistemology than that of RCC, one in which Scripture was supreme and exclusive. The “slogan” say, “Keep pursing this methodology and do not slip back in to “traditions of men” based epistemology. (Read what Jesus has to say in NT about the cancer of the traditions of men.)

By: TJH

TJH — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:29:24 +0000

T-fan — excellent.

Josh — Safari works I see. Not familiar with Opera or IE. If anyone knows the fix email us at the usual place. I could add it to the list of annual maintainance items if it is easy to test.

By: TurretinFan

TurretinFan — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:02:47 +0000

I certainly agree with your distinction and don’t much care for the slogan because of its potential for the kind of wrong understanding that makes you want to reach for your revolver.

By: Josh

Josh — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:15:31 +0000

TJH,

Opera >9.0 and IE 8.o don’t display your comment numbers in sequence: every comment is labeled “1.”. Firefox is golden, and I’m not sure about Safari. FYI