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	<title>Comments on: Movie. House of Sand and Fog, 2003. (HIx: 3)</title>
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	<link>http://firstword.us/2007/05/movie-house-of-sand-and-fog-2003-hix-4/</link>
	<description>How can you have the last word if you haven't heard the first?</description>
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		<title>By: TJH</title>
		<link>http://firstword.us/2007/05/movie-house-of-sand-and-fog-2003-hix-4/comment-page-1/#comment-1541</link>
		<dc:creator>TJH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://butler-harris.org/archives/215#comment-1541</guid>
		<description>Such a coincidence. Just today, Yahoo has a truth-is- stranger-than- fiction &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070716/ap_on_fe_st/odd_miniscule_tax_bill;_ylt=AlECbSinb.GGLp9nnjSEvY4Z.3QA&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;story&lt;/a&gt; on house repo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such a coincidence. Just today, Yahoo has a truth-is- stranger-than- fiction <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070716/ap_on_fe_st/odd_miniscule_tax_bill;_ylt=AlECbSinb.GGLp9nnjSEvY4Z.3QA" rel="nofollow">story</a> on house repo.</p>
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		<title>By: TJH</title>
		<link>http://firstword.us/2007/05/movie-house-of-sand-and-fog-2003-hix-4/comment-page-1/#comment-1542</link>
		<dc:creator>TJH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jul 2007 01:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://butler-harris.org/archives/215#comment-1542</guid>
		<description>Now, as to the criticism of plausibility, can anyone seriously claim that the plot of Hamlet or Othello is realistically plausible?

Not literally; but the point of human nature that is highlighted is; not the action details.

Connelly&#039;s story is the one that is particularly implausible in a literal sense. But her situation (alone, yet desperate to keep the house) could easily be explained in a natural way with a suitable prequel. Moreover, even if traditional Americana would not lead to such a truculent deprivation of property without warning or due process, it is not at all hard to imagine civil government as such behaving that way. I fear our society is moving in that direction rather than in the direction of the Americana that we imagine in romantic moments, and that indeed was once to a large extent the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, as to the criticism of plausibility, can anyone seriously claim that the plot of Hamlet or Othello is realistically plausible?</p>
<p>Not literally; but the point of human nature that is highlighted is; not the action details.</p>
<p>Connelly&#8217;s story is the one that is particularly implausible in a literal sense. But her situation (alone, yet desperate to keep the house) could easily be explained in a natural way with a suitable prequel. Moreover, even if traditional Americana would not lead to such a truculent deprivation of property without warning or due process, it is not at all hard to imagine civil government as such behaving that way. I fear our society is moving in that direction rather than in the direction of the Americana that we imagine in romantic moments, and that indeed was once to a large extent the case.</p>
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		<title>By: TJH</title>
		<link>http://firstword.us/2007/05/movie-house-of-sand-and-fog-2003-hix-4/comment-page-1/#comment-1540</link>
		<dc:creator>TJH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://butler-harris.org/archives/215#comment-1540</guid>
		<description>There are many strands of thought that need to be pursued. For starters, however: I don&#039;t model tragedy as requiring a heroic character. Rather, I propose this model: two or more stories that each have internal coherence and integrity, and each of which is part of the same world, yet the two stories cannot be harmonized, making the downfall of at least one of the protagonists to be inevitable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many strands of thought that need to be pursued. For starters, however: I don&#8217;t model tragedy as requiring a heroic character. Rather, I propose this model: two or more stories that each have internal coherence and integrity, and each of which is part of the same world, yet the two stories cannot be harmonized, making the downfall of at least one of the protagonists to be inevitable.</p>
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		<title>By: MRB</title>
		<link>http://firstword.us/2007/05/movie-house-of-sand-and-fog-2003-hix-4/comment-page-1/#comment-1539</link>
		<dc:creator>MRB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://butler-harris.org/archives/215#comment-1539</guid>
		<description>I thought about the movie more over the night and have come to the conclusion that I have misread it.

Kingsly and Connelly are both trying to keep up an illusion.  Kingsly&#039;s illusion is that he wants his society (ex pat Iranians) to think he is still wealthy.  Connelly&#039;s illusion is that she wants her family to think she is happily married.  The house helps both keep up their illusions.  Thus it is a house of fog.  But it is not sufficient to keep both illusions going.  And so when the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon, it fell.  And great was the fall. Thus in the end it proved to be a house of sand.  From this you can draw any number of morals or themes.

If this is, indeed, the &quot;meaning&quot; I think the movie may improve a little.  But just a little.  For there would still be no sense of proportionality.  Each characters&#039; illusions are based on some sense of pride, but not pride of the worst sort.  One may even argue, given each characters&#039; sitz im leben, that their pride is honorable.  But the gruesomeness of the ending, how did they deserve that?  And how did their minor faults result in that?

It would be like a story of a young boy who dreamed of slaying dragons and evil knights who, in the last scene, finds himself standing face to face with a real dragon or real warrior.  As if the point were: see where your dreaming might lead you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought about the movie more over the night and have come to the conclusion that I have misread it.</p>
<p>Kingsly and Connelly are both trying to keep up an illusion.  Kingsly&#8217;s illusion is that he wants his society (ex pat Iranians) to think he is still wealthy.  Connelly&#8217;s illusion is that she wants her family to think she is happily married.  The house helps both keep up their illusions.  Thus it is a house of fog.  But it is not sufficient to keep both illusions going.  And so when the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon, it fell.  And great was the fall. Thus in the end it proved to be a house of sand.  From this you can draw any number of morals or themes.</p>
<p>If this is, indeed, the &#8220;meaning&#8221; I think the movie may improve a little.  But just a little.  For there would still be no sense of proportionality.  Each characters&#8217; illusions are based on some sense of pride, but not pride of the worst sort.  One may even argue, given each characters&#8217; sitz im leben, that their pride is honorable.  But the gruesomeness of the ending, how did they deserve that?  And how did their minor faults result in that?</p>
<p>It would be like a story of a young boy who dreamed of slaying dragons and evil knights who, in the last scene, finds himself standing face to face with a real dragon or real warrior.  As if the point were: see where your dreaming might lead you.</p>
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		<title>By: MRB</title>
		<link>http://firstword.us/2007/05/movie-house-of-sand-and-fog-2003-hix-4/comment-page-1/#comment-1538</link>
		<dc:creator>MRB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2007 05:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://butler-harris.org/archives/215#comment-1538</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure about your rating on this one.  The acting was good as well as the camera work, but the plot was too contrived.  And how could a babe like Connelly not only clean houses for a living, but not have a single friend in a city she lived in all her life?

The cop is the most troublesome character.  I think the writers/director wanted to present him as a misguided do-gooder on a psychological tailspin rather than pure evil.  His &quot;development&quot;  reaches towards the absurd, though.  How does one go from a troubled boy scout to Norman Bates in the space of six days?

If the movie is a tragedy then the main character (Kingsly) must have had a fault that brought about the evil consequences.  But what would that be?  Pride?  Sure he is proud, but this is not what drives the plot to its conclusion.  Think about it.  Would it have made any difference, at any point, if he were a humbler man?

Connelly&#039;s character is as far from tragic as one could get.  Hero&#039;s are supposed to have one flaw, Connelly has nothing but flaws.  The only thing she has that comes close to being a virtue is that she, towards the end, comes to view the Iranian family as being at least human.  This is a thin reed to hang tragedy on.

But maybe this is not meant to be a tragedy.  Perhaps it is meant to be a commentary on the clash between modern and traditional cultures -- when they come in contact, they are mutually destructive.  If this is what the movies is about, it does a good deal of concealing this fact.

JC mentions idolatry as the theme.  This is certainly not what the film is about.  Connelly&#039;s character is so miserable that she could not even rise to level of being an idolater.  The reason she wants the house back is because she needs a place to live and because she feels guilty for losing it since her father worked all his life to pay for it.  Far from idolatry, there is little to indicate she even had a sentimental attachment to it.

As for Kingsly&#039;s character, the only idolatry he could be said to have was that for his family.  But given his worldview, family is the ultimate.  And there is nothing in the movie that indicates this view is in any way a perversion.

My colleague and I usually agree on almost everything.  (My wife tells me this frightens her.)  But I don&#039;t see anything great about this movie except for possibly putting a traditional culture in a positive light.  I find it a pretentious fake, trying to devastate like a Sophoclean tragedy.  What is really going on, though, is a series of plot twists that keeps the audience wondering what could possibly happen next.  It is more like Shyamalan than Sophocles with the qualification that Shyamalan is at least able to pull off a &quot;I didn&#039;t see that coming&quot; at the end.

But I will give my colleague the last word on this one.  He is far better at penetrating movies than I and so I will eagerly await to hear where I have gone wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure about your rating on this one.  The acting was good as well as the camera work, but the plot was too contrived.  And how could a babe like Connelly not only clean houses for a living, but not have a single friend in a city she lived in all her life?</p>
<p>The cop is the most troublesome character.  I think the writers/director wanted to present him as a misguided do-gooder on a psychological tailspin rather than pure evil.  His &#8220;development&#8221;  reaches towards the absurd, though.  How does one go from a troubled boy scout to Norman Bates in the space of six days?</p>
<p>If the movie is a tragedy then the main character (Kingsly) must have had a fault that brought about the evil consequences.  But what would that be?  Pride?  Sure he is proud, but this is not what drives the plot to its conclusion.  Think about it.  Would it have made any difference, at any point, if he were a humbler man?</p>
<p>Connelly&#8217;s character is as far from tragic as one could get.  Hero&#8217;s are supposed to have one flaw, Connelly has nothing but flaws.  The only thing she has that comes close to being a virtue is that she, towards the end, comes to view the Iranian family as being at least human.  This is a thin reed to hang tragedy on.</p>
<p>But maybe this is not meant to be a tragedy.  Perhaps it is meant to be a commentary on the clash between modern and traditional cultures &#8212; when they come in contact, they are mutually destructive.  If this is what the movies is about, it does a good deal of concealing this fact.</p>
<p>JC mentions idolatry as the theme.  This is certainly not what the film is about.  Connelly&#8217;s character is so miserable that she could not even rise to level of being an idolater.  The reason she wants the house back is because she needs a place to live and because she feels guilty for losing it since her father worked all his life to pay for it.  Far from idolatry, there is little to indicate she even had a sentimental attachment to it.</p>
<p>As for Kingsly&#8217;s character, the only idolatry he could be said to have was that for his family.  But given his worldview, family is the ultimate.  And there is nothing in the movie that indicates this view is in any way a perversion.</p>
<p>My colleague and I usually agree on almost everything.  (My wife tells me this frightens her.)  But I don&#8217;t see anything great about this movie except for possibly putting a traditional culture in a positive light.  I find it a pretentious fake, trying to devastate like a Sophoclean tragedy.  What is really going on, though, is a series of plot twists that keeps the audience wondering what could possibly happen next.  It is more like Shyamalan than Sophocles with the qualification that Shyamalan is at least able to pull off a &#8220;I didn&#8217;t see that coming&#8221; at the end.</p>
<p>But I will give my colleague the last word on this one.  He is far better at penetrating movies than I and so I will eagerly await to hear where I have gone wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim H</title>
		<link>http://firstword.us/2007/05/movie-house-of-sand-and-fog-2003-hix-4/comment-page-1/#comment-1537</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 23:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://butler-harris.org/archives/215#comment-1537</guid>
		<description>Yes, using a Framian/Poythrissian perspectival analysis, that could be a thread to pull -- wherever people not united to Christ are concerned.

However, from the &quot;givenness&quot; of the situation, which would involve rights, duties, goals, etc., all in view of a situation held together by common grace, I would suggest that that would not be a prominant perspective here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, using a Framian/Poythrissian perspectival analysis, that could be a thread to pull &#8212; wherever people not united to Christ are concerned.</p>
<p>However, from the &#8220;givenness&#8221; of the situation, which would involve rights, duties, goals, etc., all in view of a situation held together by common grace, I would suggest that that would not be a prominant perspective here.</p>
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		<title>By: John Calvin</title>
		<link>http://firstword.us/2007/05/movie-house-of-sand-and-fog-2003-hix-4/comment-page-1/#comment-1536</link>
		<dc:creator>John Calvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 03:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://butler-harris.org/archives/215#comment-1536</guid>
		<description>I saw it a long time ago.  From what I recall, it also had a good message on how idolatry can ruin us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw it a long time ago.  From what I recall, it also had a good message on how idolatry can ruin us.</p>
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